Conversations with Sai .. (Part H)

Visitor: There is an experience that I have. The scriptures name it as Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Pure consciousness only exists, consciousness without any object. After having had experience of that state of being, can one do anything to stem that loss?

SAI: It is like this. When rain leaves the clouds, it is pure, but becomes contaminated when it reaches the ground. That water may be purified by some technique, but it cannot be equated with the purity of the rain. In like fashion, you lose the Nirvikalpa Samadhi state when duty calls you to your work. Sadhana will purify that worldly life, but that purified life is not the same as Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

Visitor: Should I leave my work?

SAI: No. Just do the work. Not for your employers but for God.

Visitor: I will try to apply this lesson when I return to my home and my work
(A group of farmers, from whom Swami had purchased a parcel of land adjoining the college, came with a bag to carry away the purchase money. But Swami gave them some six times as much money as had been agreed upon for the purchase. The larger sum was also larger in bulk, and would not fit into the bag which the farmers had brought with them. The farmers could not understand why they were given so much money).

Farmer: Lord, how can we possibly eat your money? Take it back.

SAI: No. The extra rupees are to get you started in some business. For now that the land is sold, where will you manage? Everyone should work and earn their living.

SAI: The ten-rupee note tells you that it has seen many faces and will see many more. Money comes to your hand, but does not stay; whereas morality comes and stays. Money comes and goes; morality comes and grows. With many people, they are quite agreeable to misuse money for self-indulgence, for bad action, but if the possibility comes up to use the money for a good purpose, they at once become extremely cautious and reluctant and bring up many objections.

Hislop : : Swami, on the road to Simla, drivers were very reckless in trying to stay close behind Swami's car. At one moment, our car, which was going at a high speed, swerved to miss another car and was about to rundown a policeman at the side of the road. It seemed sure there was neither time nor space to avoid striking him, but at the last second only his uniform was brushed by the car and he was not harmed. Surely, it must be Swami who is driving every devotee's car, is it not?

SAI: No. It is the driver's responsibility. He must exercise caution and responsibility. It is only at the moment of an accident that Swami takes over the situation.

H : Why does Swami conduct a marriage ceremony for older people who are long married?

SAI: In India , at age 60, people have a second marriage as rebirth of the marriage into spiritual life directed to God and not concerned with the senses. Prior to age 60, the couple were entitled to enjoy the fruits of the senses. At the age of 70, seven also has a significance. There are seven great Rishis and at age 70 a person should be merged with these saints. At age 80, there are eight Deities reigning over the directions. At age 80, we should be merged with these Deities. At age 90, there are nine special planets, and we should be merged with them. At age 100, one should be master of the five working organs and the five sense organs, and should be merged with God. The five working organs are talking, walking, rejecting (excrement), procreating and eating. The five sense organs are hearing, touch, sight, taste and smell.

An Indian Visitor: These Hindu rites, is there anything to them?

SAI: We owe debts of gratitude, and this gratitude must be expressed at the appropriate time, and in such a way as will enable the message to be delivered. Our gratitude is due to the two parents, Guru, God, nature and the sages. If a letter is sent correctly addressed, it will reach its destination, and one need not know about, or worry about the transit terminals through which the letter passes en route. In the case of the parents, their bodies have died, but the Atma has suffered no change. The correct address for the expression of gratitude is provided by the Mantra used in the ceremony. Mantras are very powerful, and in olden days they were relied upon. Nowadays machines are relied upon. The experts in Mantras were called saints. The experts in machines are called scientists.
(A visiting scientist now raised a doubt about science vis-à-vis what Swami said).

SAI: Science is highly fragmentary, and its approach to reality is through Maya, and this is a highly dangerous procedure. Science does not even know the truth of chemistry and physics. Each ten years or so, the old truths are discarded or modified because of research results. So, when man tries to compare science and the spiritual world of Baba, he is comparing a science whose finality is not known, with spiritual truth of which he is also ignorant. Science is from the senses downward. Spirit is from the senses upward. Science does not even know of the great holes in the sun through which winds rush to regulate the temperature. Science is hit and miss. For one to really know, he must have the total, over-all knowledge of Baba.

H : Is there a reliable English translation of the Vedas?

SAI: The Vedas come from certain fundamental sounds and their variations. The slightest modification of the sound changes the meaning of what is said. No written language is able to represent all of the Vedic sounds. It is impossible to write many of the words. The Vedas are God's breath and can be transmitted from person to person only by voice. In all of India there are only a handful of people who can recite the Vedas correctly. Some attempts have been made in recent years to write the Vedas and print them in books. The effort is wasted.

SAI: The Universe is a globe. Earth and all beings are smaller globes within that. The whole universe is held in Baba's hand….. Forget the world. Give up the Jiva. Reach God. Of the various Sadhanas, repetition of the Name of God is the most effective. If that is not done Karma is next best. If no Sadhana is done, then love of God is enough. With love of God no discipline or practice is necessary. Love of God is enough.

Hislop : : Why does Baba have regular schools? Why not religious schools?

SAI: Religious schools would appeal only to the religious, whereas Baba's task is to raise the general public into devotion and spiritual life. One aspect of Baba's task is to reform education, and if that were impossible He would not have come. Now, having come, be assured the task will be accomplished, but not as fast as impatient humans would like. By an intensive T.V. campaign, rapid change could be accomplished, but it would be only temporary. God sees things differently to man and He knows that to start early, drive slowly, reach safely is correct. The change that Baba is bringing about may be through slow methods, such as His colleges, but the methods will be effective.

H : What should we do about young people to correct their character and behaviour?

SAI: A child is bound to touch a hot lamp until once burned. Young people are without balance and they want immediate results. For example: yesterday there was a marriage here. The young man wanted a son at once; he did not wish to wait for nine months. A Guru (so-called) comes into view, and the young people flock to him, hoping for quick Self-realization. But, once disappointed, they turn away and, in the process, gain some caution and patience.
A small story: a young man of very poor parents graduated with a B.A., mainly because the teachers were fed up with his many failures at the exams. His parents were now proud and said, 'We will find you a wife'. The boy replied. 'I will take only a B.A. girl, for I am a B.A.' Mother said, 'We cannot afford servants for a girl who will come from her room at 9 a.m. We need a wife to help with the housework.' The son replied, 'It is my needs that matter, not yours. Do as I wish or I will leave'. The parents capitulated and secured the desired wife. The boy told his friends, 'I am now happiness itself.' Three days later he said to his wife, 'My dear, arise now and make me coffee'. She replied 'My dear, I am B.A., same as you. Please arise and get coffee for me!' Now the boy proclaimed to all that life had become black and all was unhappiness and misery. Thus, from total happiness to total misery in 3 day's time.
This behaviour of the young is typical because they have not been taught to respect and revere their parents. Their behaviour in the spiritual direction is similar. How can there be any spiritual light until the inside is clean? Inside work is quiet inquiry and discrimination. After the inside is clean, outward disciplines may have some value.

H : Young people nowadays say how can they respect their parents, when the parents engage in wrong actions?

SAI: Young people do not realize how their parents worry. No matter how faulty the parents, they wish only the best for their children. At the very least, the children can honour this and also realize the sacrifice, care, and love given to the child to keep it alive and give it a chance for life. These factors must be appreciated and honoured even though the parents have faults. Only by honouring the parents will the children's children honour them. A clear case of action and reaction.

H Swami, if the parent says one thing and the Guru says another, to which order should the child give preference?

SAI: The parents who give the body come before God.

H : Parents come before God, Swami? That is surprising.

SAI: For people in the worldly sphere, that is true. For young people leading a pure spiritual life, God comes first of all.